Hiring High Tech – and Keeping Them Around ft. Joe Meadors
Good morning. I'm Joe. Thanks for the opportunity. Glad everybody showed up here. I've obviously been doing this a while, so I thought I'd share some of the methods.
Joe Meadors:So I have always done a 100% of my hiring. I respect the recruiters, but they don't know if somebody's blowing smoke. You know, there's people who can fake it. They don't see it like I can. So I is in pain.
Joe Meadors:Read through the resumes, look for the folks, and use your knowledge to sort that out. Again, I have to be nice to the recruiting folks and say I appreciate them, but I'm like you don't know what we're talking about here. I always do a phone call. I respond to people I think I want to talk to. I'm like I send them a note.
Joe Meadors:I say, hey, I just need five, ten minutes for a call. This is not a full interview. It tells me a bunch. Sorry, a little clogged up today. All I want to know is can they talk to a stranger?
Joe Meadors:You know, if I get on the call and they go, Uh-uh. I'm like, that's not who I want to talk to. So can they have a conversation with somebody they've just met? All I want to know is what has you looking for a job. I want to know honestly if they can just have a conversation.
Joe Meadors:That's it. And if that goes well, can I set up an interview to go technical? This call is not technical. It is simply, can you talk to somebody you've never met and say something useful? This is a key.
Joe Meadors:I would say this is might be the most useful thing I say today. I go, what do you know about my company? And if I would say probably half have done nothing. They go, you manufacture electricity. I'm like, no, we don't.
Joe Meadors:But that is key. And some of them get a little annoyed. Hey, look, I'm taking my time to talk to you. You applied for a job. You knew this was coming.
Joe Meadors:It was on your calendar. And you didn't take five minutes to go see what it is we do. So that to me is key, and that's that whole purpose of that five minute call. Like, if you're interested in this job, you should know what company you're talking to. And then I talk about some of the details.
Joe Meadors:Just basic stuff. This is our company does not have a work from home policy. It's in the office role. Yeah, we're flexible, but you're not don't plan on working from home all the time. Some of this certain roles, you'll be on 20 fourseven call if it's a cyber thing.
Joe Meadors:So I just kind of go through the basics. If we get through that call, then I set up a full interview. A lot of times it's a team call or a Zoom call. Just bringing more of my team start to go down the technical path. So we've kind of filtered this out.
Joe Meadors:I would say if I make fifteen, twenty phone calls, probably only two or three actually get an interview. They get past that call. So I haven't spent hours and hours and hours trying to get to there. I spent ten or fifteen, twenty ten minute phone calls. Now I know who I want to talk to.
Joe Meadors:And once you get down that path, then I pass it back over to the recruiting team to do all the paperwork and say, this is the person we want. Let's get them an offer and go from there. Let me stop here a second. Any questions? Yeah.
Joe Meadors:What question do you find is most helpful? I would say the what do you know about this? It tells me their interest. If they're interested in that role, they've done their homework. If they're not if they're just clicking the button and submitting, they don't know anything about it, I don't wanna talk to them.
Joe Meadors:They might be super qualified, but if they don't care, I don't care either. Anything else?
Audience:Has HR pushed back on you? I mean, did they push back on you
Audience:early on? Have they gotten used to your behavior?
Joe Meadors:Yeah. Yeah. Usually. Once or twice, they've gotten a little this way with them. But I'm like, you know, I'm just trying to do your job for you.
Joe Meadors:Respect you. Yeah. And every once in while, Doug had to say, Do you know the difference between this and this? Like, Okay. I'm like, Alright, let me do it.
Joe Meadors:I often as I hire folks look at them as having two halves. Is their skills, technical stuff. And I had this wrong back in the day. I was always about the skills and it wasn't about the person. And I realized that I as a leader can have influence on their skills.
Joe Meadors:I can get them more training education and mentoring do all that stuff. I don't have any impact on this. So I try to find people who are service oriented, helpful, because I can't fix that. I can fix the skill set. I can't fix the who they are and how they interact with people.
Joe Meadors:I do think this is important that when you hire somebody, say, look, I think you're a good candidate for this. I think we need to develop you more specifically in this particular element. And when I hire you, I'm going to write it down that you will have this skill set, whether it's a certification or whatever, in this amount of time. Be specific. I've had that experience where I've said, Okay, so I think you've got a good background.
Joe Meadors:You need to get your CCNA. Twelve months down the road, they still don't have it. So now I put it in the contract. And then I go back to them and go, Look, your employment contract says this is due by this day. Get it done.
Joe Meadors:Has been I've gotten burned on that a couple of times. Building the team is critical. And this is one of the things I poke at my team about, people who are there. They don't always cooperate when I say to do that. So I actually track it and make sure that they get to know the new people.
Joe Meadors:Two way street gave me a team. I want them to get to know each other and like this is not technical. This is what do you do outside of work? What video games do you play? That kind of stuff.
Joe Meadors:But I do insist on that. Actually bust their chops and they don't get it done. I do encourage people. I'm like, if you're burnt, take some time. I'm not opposed to that.
Joe Meadors:And sometimes I tell them, you appear to be burnt out. Why don't you check on out? Like, no, I could get this done. I'm like, no, you just get out of here. I've lost people, you know, that have stepped away, literally walked out the door.
Joe Meadors:So any questions about that part? That's not my Alright. So the last part of this is I call do these things called happy factor calls. I used to do it when my team was five or six, did them four times a year. Now that my team is 18, I do them like three times a year.
Joe Meadors:I sit down with everybody one on one for a half hour. I give them a note ahead of time. Give me a score between one and five. Five is you are very happy with your job. You do it for free if you can afford to.
Joe Meadors:One is you hate your job. You already got a foot out the door. But give me a number, integer, no fraction. And then I said, you know, what brought you to that? They had a couple of questions there about their education plan, whatever else.
Joe Meadors:But those numbers, make them think about what they desire. So a couple of good stories. Had a, woman once who said, I'm a two. I said, oh, I thought you were happy here. What?
Joe Meadors:She goes, well, every day I get off the elevator and I sit in this chair that squeaks and rocks and rolls. I was like, is that it? She said, yeah. I said, I what would you be if I bought you a new chair? I'd be a five.
Joe Meadors:It brings out things that you can and can't fix. The chair thing you can fix. Sometimes they'll say, well, I moved and now my drive is an hour and a half. Like, I can't fix that. You know, I there's things I can and can't fix.
Joe Meadors:Sometimes it is career path where they say, I really want to do this. I'm like, totally respect that. That's not this role. That's not what this business needs. If you want to go find a new job, I'll help you.
Joe Meadors:But we can't guide you in a path that we don't need. The other thing I get is common threads. So they'll say, well, I don't share this. I don't share, what each of them says with the group. But I will get, common threads about we think this policy is bad or we think this thing is bad.
Joe Meadors:I get those and I get usually one or two things I'm like, okay, I got to go fix that. So those are the things those happy factor calls, those tend to make people really happy. Mostly, in my opinion, is because you're spending one on one time with them. So let me stop there again. Questions?
Joe Meadors:Comments?
Audience:Do any of your direct reports have direct reports, Joe?
Joe Meadors:In our structure now, we have team leads. So they do have a lead that runs their daily operation. Technically, they still report to me.
Audience:So you're still having contact with all those team members?
Joe Meadors:Okay. Yeah.
Audience:So one of the things I focus on quite a bit is trust within the team and with me. But even with that, there are still times when a a team member maybe doesn't feel comfortable sharing that type of information. How do you break down that barrier?
Joe Meadors:Can't always break them down. One usually, first for a new hire, that first happy factor call, they're very oh, I love my job. I'm happy here. They start to get a little more relaxed after they've been there a while. They'll be more open after they've been there a bit.
Joe Meadors:They understand that, this is not going to be shared. It's not going to be critiqued. It does take a little time, but these, the other thing I do just for my own reference is, you'll be shocked. I keep an index. I'm like, okay.
Joe Meadors:So last quarter, the happy factor index was 3.9. Now at 4.1. And people are so happy. Or occasionally, it went from I had one time where it went from, I think about a 3.7 to a 2.8. I was like, oh, people wouldn't be leaving.
Joe Meadors:So I will say that since I started doing this and the whole purpose of it was I have had, nobody walked in with their two week notice. I always know ahead of time. We talk about it. They're like, I need to find a job closer to home. Get it?
Joe Meadors:I'll help you. Or I want to go down this career path. I'm like, that doesn't fit here. I know some people that I can help you with. So when they leave, I know they're going.
Joe Meadors:That was the whole point of starting this.
Audience:Question back here, Joe.
Joe Meadors:Yeah.
Audience:Have you thought about or are you developing your next generation of leaders? Yes.
Audience:Is that
Joe Meadors:part of what you're Yeah. Just in this organization, the team lead thing. So I have an engineering team lead, desktop support team lead, data team lead, and they do the day to day operations. That was one of the pieces I had to do as the team got bigger, as the company got bigger. We kicked around making those direct reports, and there's no plus or minus one way or the other.
Joe Meadors:But, yeah, we're trying to make sure we've got people that run those teams on a regular operation. Yes?
Audience:As your team grew and you had that additional layer of leadership come in, how did that change your process? Are they having their own happy factor calls and things like that?
Joe Meadors:They are not doing their own happy factor calls. It has been development, mentoring about how to lead those teams, different personalities of those people who have taken on those roles. Some were I they, like, keep everything in their own hands. Like, nope. You gotta be the leader.
Joe Meadors:Let them do their stuff. Others maybe weren't engaged. Like, I'm just gonna do my job. And I'm like, no, you gotta get with your team and get to, connect with them so that you're so they do, I think it's biweekly team calls where they do a thing that, I kind of started a long time ago. They meet as a group and everybody gets to talk.
Joe Meadors:It's not just their boss. They do a quick summary. What did it get done since last call? What's currently on my list? And the most important part is what's in my way?
Joe Meadors:And they share that around the group. And so they know what they can say, be happy about what they got done, share with the group what they're working on. And most importantly, at least for me, is what's in my way? Well, so and so hasn't responded. Well, let me help you do that.
Joe Meadors:Or I can't seem to get so and so doing this. Let me help you do that. So that what's my roadblock? So they do those calls, each team. And then I meet with my group and we do that same thing about what's in your way, what's holding you back.
Audience:Do you attend those group meetings?
Joe Meadors:Every time I can, yes. Not all of them, but yeah. I sit in and listen. Sometimes I volunteer. Sometimes the poking from my role works better.
Audience:Follow-up question. As you're still doing the the happy factor calls with now the the leadership team and the the work of each, so to speak, are you separating those two scores in, like, a happy leadership score and a happy employee score?
Joe Meadors:I am the one doing the happy factor calls.
Audience:I do it with all of them.
Audience:But you're doing it with two distinct population groups?
Joe Meadors:No. I do it with all of them. I meet with my leaders to do those three things. What do you get done? What's on my list?
Joe Meadors:What's in my way? That's the call I do with my team leads. But then the happy factors I do with all 18 of my folks. And it's usually a half hour. Sometimes they're pretty quick and easy.
Joe Meadors:Sometimes they go more than a half hour. But they longer they've been there, the more they do it. They look forward to them. They have a better communication. The first couple of times, they're not sure what to say.
Joe Meadors:They're like afraid they're going to take me off or whatever. I'm like, no. Just tell me what's on your mind. Sometimes I'll do a question at the end about, you know, what do you think of the company or direction or leadership? Just commentary.
Joe Meadors:Just open the chat. Great question. Yes. If there's something that came up as a common thread, like more than two or three people said, we think this is not going well. I will say that, alright, so I heard that we think this several of you think this process needs to be scrapped and redone.
Joe Meadors:And I will just say that several of you think that. So let's sit down and figure that out. Or I will go to my my boss and go, so I heard this four or five times. I just wanna share with you what my team thinks is going on. I'll do that, but I don't give names.
Audience:What what is the example of someone like you mentioned that maybe living ninety minutes away from where they live now? Would you tell the team, like, I think we've got Fly Risk and Bob or Sue?
Joe Meadors:I don't commonly share that. You usually already know it. They've heard it complaining going on over there. But, you know, some of the things are fixable. Some of them are not.
Joe Meadors:And we just have those open chats to say, I can help adjust and fix this and or I can't. And they I think that has kept them where, you know, they'll tell me, like, I'm shopping for another job. I'm like, I get it. Totally understand why you're going. If I can help you, happy to do it.
Audience:One more question.
Audience:Yeah. The interview process is owned by the company, and all of those steps that you talked about are determining what does the candidate have to offer me. What are your skills? What are your behavioral traits? But the biggest complaint I hear is to attract the best talent, you've got to offer them something too.
Audience:Candidates will tell me, well, interviewed me for an hour and a half, they looked at their watch and said, you have ten minutes to
Audience:ask any questions you want.
Audience:At what point do you start delving into what is the candidate's motivator? What what do you want?
Joe Meadors:Yeah. Once I get to that point where this I'm pretty confident this is a good fit, I will say, I think you're a good fit. I think you enjoy being here. What are we looking for? And have that conversation about they're not they always start with pay.
Joe Meadors:Bob will say, so what else? What else are you looking for here? I said, we can accommodate certain things. Policy says we can't maybe do all of them, but I want to know what you want and we'll see how close we can get.
Audience:Joe, thank you.
Joe Meadors:Thank you all. Appreciate it.
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