IT Leaders

Kathy Brown: 00:05

Feel like everybody's so far away up here at the front. Like churches. I know. If I was leading the meeting, I'd made everybody like sit up one or like move the tables and you didn't know, and then I'm back there. Hi.

Kathy Brown: 00:19

My name is Kathy Brown. I am an IT leader, although I feel like I kind of fell into that role in my career. I've done a lot of things, but for the last fifteen years, I've been in the Salesforce ecosystem. So today, what is my life like? Today, half my time is spent mentoring the team that report to me.

Kathy Brown: 00:38

They are of all skill level architects, business analysts, consultants, developers that are on our team, And half my day is spent mentoring and supporting them, coaching them, and feeling like they're looking to me to always have the answer. And then the other part of my day is spent with customers. So we are implementation partners. So we work with customers. And a lot of times, if I'm in the room, I'm in the room because there's a problem.

Kathy Brown: 01:05

I'm in the room because there's an escalation. And so the other part of my day is spent with customers a lot of times in executive levels, and they're looking to me to have an answer because they've paid me to have an answer. So that can be a lot of pressure to always feel like you're the one in the room that people are looking for for answers. And that question that started it this morning of what's one of the things you've learned. That's the thing that I learned is I don't always have to have the answer and it's really powerful if you can transition your mindset to be the person who doesn't always have to have the answer.

Kathy Brown: 01:39

And so when I was asked to speak and what's something you would share, what's one thing that you would talk to your team about and funny enough, I just had this conversation yesterday with one of our architects. We talk about this. We mentor, we work on this every single week in our team of you don't always have to have the answer. How do you approach a situation by posing it as a question instead or giving your spit yourself the space to say I don't have to have the answer. So I thought I would share kind of how we talk about it in our team and how I've worked on it in my own career because I only came up with this through a failure and of my own light bulb moment of why did I say that?

Kathy Brown: 02:16

Why didn't I just say I don't know give myself the space to do the research and come back with the right answer and not the first answer. So I think there's three parts to it. The first is I think it is sourced in fear. So let's talk about why there's this fear of saying I don't know. Then let's talk about how we move to a different place, how we change our perspective to a place of empowerment, and what that would look like and why we might do that.

Kathy Brown: 02:43

And then the third thing I want to talk about is if we do that, how it can really drive innovation in what we do if we approach it that way. So the first thing is why is there a fear in it? I work with people of all ages, all levels of background, and I think that it is based in this concept of vulnerability and humility of, if I say I don't know, am I gonna be judged? Are people, oh my god, they're paying me. I'm a paid consultant.

Kathy Brown: 03:14

Aren't I supposed to have the answer? And it's this fear, like we've gone to college, we have degrees, we have certifications. So I'm being paid to have the answer. So I'm supposed to have the answer and that takes a minute to kind of process that well, you're doing it out of fear and let's put that aside and think a little bit differently. I mean think about social media.

Kathy Brown: 03:36

We have influencers and they're like they're paid to have an opinion and idea. It's kind of in the seat of our culture and everything we do and certainly professionally that we're supposed to have the answer and it's a fear based mentality, I think. So how do you move away from that? How do you how do you move over to a different idea and what would that idea be? So for us, we talk about it in a place of curiosity.

Kathy Brown: 04:02

If you don't have the answer, then you can be curious. And if you're curious, you can ask good questions. And if you have good questions, then you can have innovation that starts to happen. So, but that takes a minute to like, okay, it's not a personal deficit. I have to shift my entire mindset of, it's going to be an empowering thing for me to shake it off and say, don't have to have the answer, and instead, I'm going to I'm going to enter this from a place of humility and curiosity in order to approach my customer, approach my peers, or whatever it happened to be.

Kathy Brown: 04:33

So how do you shift it? You gotta like, take it, you gotta like, it's not a deficit, it's empowering if I ask a question. So you kind of have to like really, and we work on that, like even yesterday. She had her talk track all perfectly ready, and I was like, if you'd go with this approach, you're talking at them, and they're not gonna have an opportunity to come to the conclusion on their own. So don't approach it differently, be curious, ask as a question.

Kathy Brown: 04:59

If you do that, what happens? If you do it, you start to spark innovation. So if I don't have the answer, and instead I pose it as a question, I start to drive creativity in the conversation. I start to drive collaboration in the conversation. I start to pull from people who even if I have the idea or I think I have the answer, it might be my perspective.

Kathy Brown: 05:21

But if I start to ask questions, I start to pull other people into the dialogue and it starts to be collaborative in what you do. So we talk about that a lot. Right? So if you if you if you just take a minute and you pose it as a question instead, even if you have the answer, you pose it as a question, people engage in a conversation and you're not just talking at people and that really for us drives the Innovation in what we do. So for us, I thought I would share like a little bit of a personal personal story of how it kind of works in our world.

Kathy Brown: 05:51

So we are Salesforce implementers. So we are working in a known piece of software. That software changes every quarter. Every quarter, there's new features. Every quarter, there's new functionality.

Kathy Brown: 06:05

There's release notes that we're supposed to study up on. We have certifications. It's constantly changing. They change their they have a new cloud. They bought a new tool.

Kathy Brown: 06:15

They bought Slack. They bought oh my god. They buy more things than what you can keep track of. They rename their licensing. They change their pricing.

Kathy Brown: 06:22

Like, I'm working in a software that's constantly changing and half the time the change doesn't really make sense, but we're living with it because we work with Salesforce. So for us again, we've just accepted it. Why do I have this pressure of I have to know all of the features? I have to know all the things that it does. I have to know all the licensing.

Kathy Brown: 06:42

We don't. We just assume that we don't and I never could keep track of all of it. And again, that kind of release of having to be that answer all the time allows you to approach your whole world very very differently. So for us, in Salesforce, it's really important that we fundamentally don't think we always have the answer because I've answered a question pretty clearly in front of a customer, and then went back and realized that that feature was deprecated. And then you had to like go back and be like, okay.

Kathy Brown: 07:12

So I apologize. I thought I had an answer for that, but in fact, I can't do that. So it does take a lot of pressure off when you say, I don't know. But that's really uncomfortable. So the last thing I want to kind of talk a little bit about, which again, we work on a lot in our team, is how you make that authentic to you, and that's really where this all becomes very practical.

Kathy Brown: 07:36

So I'm a my foundation, I lead the team now, but I'm a solutions architect at my heart. So I often run discoveries with our customers or certainly when there's moments of escalation, I get involved, And I say to each member of your team, of my team, you have to have your authentic way of saying this that doesn't feel uncomfortable to you, so it doesn't come across as uncomfortable to who you're saying it to. I like to cook. I cook a lot. I like recipes.

Kathy Brown: 08:07

We share recipes in our in our social settings at work and certainly with our customers, it comes up. Like people know that about me. So if I get myself in a situation and somebody asks me a question, my go to is I'm gonna need to let that marinate. We need to let that one sit. Another one, people know, like people know that about me, like people on my team, they know that that's kind of like my, oh, she's given herself the space.

Kathy Brown: 08:31

The other one I say is, I need to let that one noodle. We gotta that's that's a got a noodle on that one. You have to find your own personal style and your own way of saying it, so it's authentic to you. It doesn't feel uncomfortable, but you're giving yourself the space or your team member is giving themself the space to answer that question. Another one that I use a lot is when somebody says something to me that's unexpected, I'm like, oh, that's a fun little nugget.

Kathy Brown: 08:57

Let's put that one over there for a minute. Right? So it's it's it's a big, it's so simple, but it's such a big idea for people, certainly like the junior members of our team, to really think and understand that, yes, you are supposed to be the person in the answer and it's okay that you may not have the answer in the moment. Give yourself the space. Give yourself the time.

Kathy Brown: 09:20

Focus on the right answer and not the first answer that comes to mind. So I guess I would challenge you all to kind of think of if you feel like you don't have your own way of kind of giving yourself your space, do that for yourself and try to approach it from a straight a place of strength and not a place of weakness. And, you know, if it's a small one small thing you can share with your team, I know we talk about it and we work on it every day in what we do. So that's what I have today. Short and simple.

Kathy Brown: 09:51

Happy to take any questions, but thanks so much. So we are an interesting company. Boss is a a 4,000 person company out of Spain. Two years ago, they bought two companies here in The US. They bought a Salesforce practice, which I was a part of and they bought an SAP company.

Kathy Brown: 10:14

So here in The US, the Salesforce team is kind of a startup team. So my team today is small, but we're kind of like the the starting team of the Salesforce practice. My current team has eight on it, but we augment that with South America. So the interesting thing about Boss is they really built up their near shore teams first. So there's 400 people in Mexico, there's a 100 people in Colombia.

Kathy Brown: 10:38

So our team is not intended to be the junior team, our team is intended to be the senior team, and then we pull from the near shore teams as we the idea of saying I don't know to be the smartest person, especially for a leader. It's Do very it it is counterintuitive to to being a leader, and it's counterintuitive when you're a paid consultant. Because they're expecting you to have the answer. But I think I think that's what makes us really good at what we do. And I think that's what makes us really good consultants is our customers have a trust in us that we take the time to be thoughtful.

Kathy Brown: 11:21

We really coach against best practice answers. We really coach against solutioning while you're getting requirements because that's not the point. Being curious and taking a moment and answering the question honestly instead of the first time is really important for us. And I think that's why our customers continue to come back to us. Yes.

Kathy Brown: 12:21

Yep. I agree. Yeah. I think as a leader of a team, I think it's really important that they see me have that behavior. Right?

Kathy Brown: 13:55

Like if I'm, they'll ask me a question, and I'll say, well I don't know, that's a good question. Let's figure it out together, or how would you approach that? Even when I'm asked a question, I try really hard not to answer it for them. Even if I have the answer. I try to say, well, what have you done to find that?

Kathy Brown: 14:11

Walk me through your steps of why you're asking me the question. Right? So encouraging them to think about it, and then me mirroring that behavior. I find that for junior people, it's so hard for them to say, I don't know. They feel they take it so personally.

Kathy Brown: 14:30

This younger generation, they are they're a little different breed. I feel like a counselor half the time in my job. Right? Like, okay. Let's take a breath.

Kathy Brown: 14:38

Let's count to 10, right? I've even I've even in actually yesterday, a woman we were talking. Was like, okay, so you've got way too much energy in this conversation right now. We're going to like we're going to end this call. I need you to go take a walk, process your thoughts feelings and emotions, and then we can come back and have a productive meeting.

Kathy Brown: 14:59

But that younger generation, they are just they take so much care and they take it so personally. So this is one thing that we talk about a lot. Feel like in my life. Yeah. Yep.

Kathy Brown: 15:31

Yep. Correct. Correct. So we talk a lot in our world, what's the requirement versus what's the solution? So when we're talking to somebody or when we're talking with a customer, we again, we try really hard not to solution at the table.

Kathy Brown: 16:16

And when we solution at the table, we call it out like, oh, like I'm gonna solution here a little bit. I'm just like, I'm spinning it. I don't know. I need time, but we try really hard not to solution at the table. And if we do, we try we call it out.

Kathy Brown: 16:29

Like I'd be more comfortable if I had a little bit more time to think this one through. There's probably a lot of different ways to put this together, But we we in our world talk about it as right now, we're just getting requirements. You're just gonna tell me what you want and why that's what you want, and what business value that drives, and then I don't feel like I have to answer at the table because the solution comes later. So that's how we we try to work on it in our world as Salesforce consultants. Yeah.

Kathy Brown: 18:10

In our world, so as architects, there's certainly in Salesforce, there are probably five different ways you can save you can solve the same problem in Salesforce. Right? It's nuts and bolts of widgets that I have to put together to solve your problem. And for us as architects, how I see the problem or how I put my pieces together, it works for my customer, but that may not be how somebody else solved that same problem. So for us, we really focus on kind of that Innovation piece.

Kathy Brown: 18:38

Right? Like if you only ever solve your problem how you see your problem, then maybe you don't understand how somebody else would solve the problem. We believe in how I've built our teams is we believe, I believe very passionately that in what we do, shouldn't be sidelined by industry because for example, in our world something that we built for a we built for a healthcare space, it was this kind of this very cool thing that we built. But if we only ever siloed that for the healthcare space, then the service industry wouldn't, our service team wouldn't know that, oh, I can take that thing, right, and augment it over here and solve that problem. So I think we really focus it on innovation and trying to drive the creativity in our teams by assuming that we need to ask questions.

Kathy Brown: 19:26

Kathy, thank you. Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks.