IT Leaders

00:00:00:07 - 00:00:17:02
Eric Satterly
So, I'm trying, like, a new way of doing this. We're sharing this through a teams meeting, and I've got it running on Canva over there on the laptop and, controlling it through a web app on here. So I think it's going to go great. I mean, I feel like if, if everything we said so if this works, would be awesome.

00:00:17:02 - 00:00:33:07
Eric Satterly
But anyway, thanks for hanging out. I know we only lost one between the two sites, so that's a win for me. But I'm going to go through some things. Hopefully you can see this because it'll be much more impactful if you can. If you can't, then I guess you can see it later or, you know, just visualize.

00:00:33:07 - 00:00:50:13
Eric Satterly
It'll be great. So I'm going to talk about this thing I'm calling the 5/8, framework for transformation. I'm really big into frameworks and I'm going to hopefully explain why, as we go through this. So just bear with me. I'm going to hopefully tell you a few stories along the way. So far this is working out great.

00:00:50:15 - 00:01:13:23
Eric Satterly
So, glory days, everyone remember Bruce Springsteen song? Like, just think about high school and how awesome I was back then. I really wasn't, but it's weird. I think you that's like, So that's a plan. That's my plan. Anyway, I just, you know, I think about the glory days of i.t. Right. Are you all there with me?

00:01:13:23 - 00:01:35:02
Eric Satterly
You remember back when, like we were kings in this, like you users needed us. We had this technology that people just craved. Needed, and they wanted and they had to come to us. And we were doling it out, and we were like, just. We were on top, back in the day. And that was great. And we could kind of decide, no, you get this and you get that, and you now, well, we'll see.

00:01:35:02 - 00:01:55:12
Eric Satterly
I don't know if we've got the capacity to do it. And we were just we were running the world and it was great. And it's I if I could go back, I might but something funny happened. Like the world changed, right? And this thing, like, the cloud came along and SAS or all of these different things started to come in vogue.

00:01:55:12 - 00:02:14:23
Eric Satterly
And we were running these data centers. And given services are going to users and telling them they don't know what they're doing and they need to do it our way, you know, you're just not as smart as us. And we had this, you know, technical arrogance. But all of a sudden this new thing came along and users started to kind of wonder how valuable we were.

00:02:14:23 - 00:02:32:17
Eric Satterly
And maybe we started to question that a little bit. And then we started to really wonder, like this cloud stuff, what is this anyway? And we came up with funny things like I, somebody else's computer or whatever. But like all of this, this space, it just changed. Like the things changed. I felt like the the playing field changed.

00:02:32:17 - 00:03:11:19
Eric Satterly
We were all in, in kind of a different space. And I don't know if anybody remembers this one. But, you know, do you remember anybody know what this is? Just take that Twilight zone. Right. So there was this episode of The Twilight Zone that just I remember seeing it probably like, the first airing, and it was these nine foot aliens came to Earth and they were the Cameron cabinets or Catamounts or, I don't know, something like that, but they came to Earth and they could communicate with us telepathically, and they just were very egalitarian.

00:03:11:19 - 00:03:30:18
Eric Satterly
And they just said, we're here to give you this great technology. And all we ask is that you trust us. That's it. Just trust us. And they even is a show of their fidelity. They gave us this book to serve man, right. And it was it was amazing, this book. But we couldn't read it because it was written in their own language.

00:03:30:20 - 00:03:45:06
Eric Satterly
But they just asked for trust and they were going to give us this technology and just come back to our planet, and we're going to show you how this amazing technology works. We're going to give you a shield to protect your planet from nuclear war and all this. And so everybody's just hopping on ships and going back to their planet.

00:03:45:06 - 00:04:03:09
Eric Satterly
And then at the end they translate the book and, turns out it's a cookbook. So I have often thought, as I think about that and I think about The Twilight Zone and just trust us, and I think about this cloud thing, and I don't know how much I trust it. Is it just somebody else's computer and SAS and whatever.

00:04:03:09 - 00:04:26:06
Eric Satterly
But the point that I'm making is we're in this place where, like, trust is tough. And maybe we don't even trust the tech that we're sitting on and users maybe don't trust us on the technology side. And it's all very confusing. And so, there was this, concept that Gartner put out several years ago, and it really resonated with me that made sense.

00:04:26:06 - 00:04:51:16
Eric Satterly
And they called it the consumerization of I.T. Right. So we lived in this world before this inflection point, before the, you know, this this thing happened where they call it the consumerization. And the point that we lived in was we provided these I.T services. So we doled out services. Again, we we designed the stable path. We figured out capacity we could give service to the users, install applications, all that good stuff, deliver it.

00:04:51:16 - 00:05:18:11
Eric Satterly
In fact, we often had to encourage people to use the services that we would create and deliver. But then a funny thing happened, right? The cloud happened, SaaS happened, users started to get phones that had amazing technology, and they were doing stuff in their personal lives that really pushed them on their professional business lives. And so they started to come at it and like, I need this and this and this, and that's like, wait, I can't because I'm just I'm trying to provide you the stable path and we don't have the resources.

00:05:18:11 - 00:05:38:19
Eric Satterly
And so every moment in time that went past what technology, what the AI team could provide and what the users expected and demanded, cause this thing Gartner called the climate crisis. And I mean, it feels very real to me. And we're just in this point where the increasing demands of the business are outstripping the ability to deliver that.

00:05:38:21 - 00:05:56:12
Eric Satterly
And so users may come to the technology organization to try to get help, but they're not going to stick around when you can't help them. Yeah, you're doing it wrong. Come back in three years. Well we'll figure that out. And they're like, okay, I'm done with you. And they pivot, right? They go spin up some service. They they swipe their credit card, they get their SaaS service and they're off.

00:05:56:12 - 00:06:19:04
Eric Satterly
And running. And now you're like, well what? Well you can't do that. And I'm like, sure, can it work? And that's like really like from their vantage point it worked right. It's like it really hit me that it's it's their experience. And so, you know, I've been doing this stuff for a long time and I think I've, you know, realized that like, pictures are worth a thousand words and frameworks are valuable.

00:06:19:06 - 00:06:37:17
Eric Satterly
But this really set in motion in my mind a way to, to to like I've gotta find ways to like, change that narrative if we're going to really have an impact or be successful. And so kind of an outcome of this is like the dawn of shadow. I.T. Right. You see it? I mean, good, bad, I don't I'm not here to weigh value on that.

00:06:37:17 - 00:07:02:03
Eric Satterly
There's obviously challenges with that. But there's also innovation that happens there that maybe we're not delivering over on this side. So I came up with this thing many years ago is like a framework to try to help, to begin to bridge the gap between what is it from the user, the customer's perspective versus what is it from the pure technologist perspective.

00:07:02:03 - 00:07:26:05
Eric Satterly
So something I called like the value creation framework for technology. And I think technologists see the world from this underlying sort of base level, which is the things that are critical are recoverability, security, reliability, governance. I mean, I see those as foundational things. But in the end, like the users care about the experience. I mean, that's it really, these things are important.

00:07:26:05 - 00:07:48:18
Eric Satterly
And I'm not saying maybe they don't think it's important, but that's this is where the customers that you have the users that you work with, that's that that's their interests, their experience with things. It's going to work or not work based on their experience, no matter how great some of these underlying things are. And in fact, maybe there can be some holes and some gaps in some of these underlying things, but experience is really going to be going to be the king on that.

00:07:48:18 - 00:08:06:07
Eric Satterly
So I came up with this is like a way to help both sides understand it. Like from the technology side, we understand that we have to deliver these things, but they all build. We do a great job here. We can build the next layer and kind of move up. And then when you can communicate with the user like they see, oh, there's a lot more to this.

00:08:06:07 - 00:08:29:02
Eric Satterly
So sometimes call it like the iceberg, right. You see this part floating out of the water. And there's a lot of things that go underneath. And so I'm at JC now. I was at Bellarmine before this. And I'll just tell you like one quick story, because I was always on this iceberg stuff because I do think it's big, like to help people understand, like, I want to give a voice to technology to realize there's a lot of complexity in the things we do, and I hope it would be appreciated.

00:08:29:08 - 00:08:46:15
Eric Satterly
But also on the technology side, like you can do these really cool things, but like sometimes you got to take a victory lap for it. Two or help people understand what it is that we're doing. And so I always talk about the iceberg, like the complexity that sits underneath. Many summers ago, I was at a cookout and it was pretty late Saturday night.

00:08:46:15 - 00:09:03:07
Eric Satterly
And I get an alert that we've got we've lost a drive on one of our storage networks now, you know, and the other drives, hot swap failed over. But, I was like, okay, well, we should replace that so that the raid could kind of rebuild itself, but it was one where it's like, oh, it's a Saturday night.

00:09:03:07 - 00:09:18:12
Eric Satterly
And I'm like, no, it's the right thing to do. We need to go do it. So I went back to campus and security was pretty good there. So I didn't have keys to get in every building. So the night shift had to come over. Let me in. One of the buildings in the the night sergeant is letting me in the building and he's like, what are you here doing?

00:09:18:12 - 00:09:34:02
Eric Satterly
I was like, I've got to replace a drive. And he's like, oh, so the internet's down, right? And I was like, no, no, you don't even notice. And he's like, well, why are you here doing it? And I was like, well, it's you know, one of those things that we have to fix so that everything's okay. He's like, oh, is this one of those iceberg things you're always talking about?

00:09:34:03 - 00:09:54:19
Eric Satterly
And I was like, you know. And that's when I just hugged him because I'm like, I mean, if the second shift night sergeant knows that we're talking about the iceberg of things like it's working, you know, and so you just okay. So I'm like, all right, so this this matters. Like so this idea of frameworks and we can kind of bring these concepts to to bear I think it works and it resonates.

00:09:54:19 - 00:10:13:23
Eric Satterly
So I like this framework. But this is like you know part of the journey, that I'm going on and I'm, I'm like, oh, come on. This is not like it's connecting. There we go. I got this. So here's another one. Like I love some of these concepts and imagery is I do believe like a picture is worth a thousand words in this.

00:10:13:23 - 00:10:47:02
Eric Satterly
And so some of these diagrams are priceless. But this idea, I think from experience, and if we think about this concept of feature itis where it's like you're trying to deliver an experience to users, we realize we've got all of these things, and sometimes we want to turn on, like every feature in a product, or we want to deliver all the things, and maybe we spend 90% of our time and the last 10% of the useful delivery of something, but it's just this idea of like the more features we get at some point, like the users, like we have overshot the experience and it becomes terrible because we just the paradox of choice kicks

00:10:47:02 - 00:11:04:12
Eric Satterly
in. There's too much. I don't even know what I'm doing anymore. I must be terrible at this. And so, when you see this later and you can kind of read them up close, it's it's really good. But it's, just an interesting thought experiment that we go through and and think, like, what things should I deliver and how much is too much?

00:11:04:12 - 00:11:18:15
Eric Satterly
And if I'm really thinking about the experience, how do we start to drive that piece up and all the things that we do, whether we're building a piece of software or trying to deliver some kind of a service, like think about what the user is going to use, how that's going to feel, the impact that it's going to make.

00:11:18:15 - 00:11:36:01
Eric Satterly
Right. Bringing some of those questions to bear, but ultimately really trying to push that up to the forefront and be proactive and not reactive on that. So it gets me to this point of thinking things like what problem or we solving? I mean, it feels good to solve problems and sometimes we have solutions that are looking for problems.

00:11:36:01 - 00:11:50:00
Eric Satterly
And so we go around doing that. But do we ever really back up and try to figure out what are we, what are we doing? Because maybe, just maybe, we don't need to do it, or we could do it in a radically different way, or maybe it's already done and we just have to be, you know, humble enough to accept that.

00:11:50:01 - 00:12:07:17
Eric Satterly
And then this other one, like, who is the customer? So, I mean, are we the customer? And I think a lot of times that ends up happening, we've got this tool. It's a great tool. I love like the admin side of this tool and we become the customer of that. But are we really a customer? Will the real customer please stand up?

00:12:07:19 - 00:12:26:02
Eric Satterly
And so it's interesting like this isn't a new thing. This has been around for a long time. So my father in law was actually CIO of Baptist Hospital, like way back in the day. And he used to write a lot of articles. And one of the articles that he wrote, like back in the 1970s, was all about like, you know, medical systems.

00:12:26:02 - 00:12:45:19
Eric Satterly
And he's like, who's this for? Is it for doctors, nurses, patients? Is it for the team? And, I mean, they were wrestling with this back then. So none of this stuff is new, you know? And I just want to continue to kind of give voice to we need to be thinking about that. So, just to show you a picture and just to show you I've been at this for like a long time.

00:12:45:19 - 00:13:00:18
Eric Satterly
So this was me on December 31st, 1999. Everybody remember? They were probably some of you. Not so much. But the reason I show you this is one to show that I've been doing this for a long time, but to just to point out this guy because I want to give him some credit. This is a guy, friend of mine named John Prophet.

00:13:00:20 - 00:13:20:01
Eric Satterly
So he and I worked at a bank back in the 90s. And so I show this because I want to give him voice on these next pages, because he and I feel like you have those relationships with some people in your life where you're like, he just you've been on this journey and you're, like, mentally linked.

00:13:20:01 - 00:13:41:08
Eric Satterly
You have so many of the same, like, ideas and concepts, and so you just riff off each other. And so for years, like, he and I have kind of riffed on different ideas of things. And so one of the really cool things that he started doing, maybe a couple of years ago, he works, at data centers in, Columbus, Ohio, on like, the government side.

00:13:41:10 - 00:14:02:13
Eric Satterly
But he, he put forward this concept where he was like, consult, analyze, deliver. Like how do you buy project management, right. We think about that. It's we can talk about scrum, agile, waterfall, all these things. I mean to to the end of we get stuck in the bottom side of the pyramid whereas the users are like, oh my gosh, you know, here's another thing.

00:14:02:13 - 00:14:18:06
Eric Satterly
Or you've got your this or that that you're coming at me with and I don't even understand and I just need this thing done. Whatever it is. But how do you, like simplify. Now we can have complexity that we deal with on the technology side. But how do we simplify like the delivery for the user side and, you know, bring alignment.

00:14:18:06 - 00:14:40:06
Eric Satterly
And so we talked about different concepts. And so he had had that concept I don't know if you've ever heard of of Shape up the shape up framework, but the company that built Base Camp 37 signals, that's something that they leverage. And it's just this idea of like, how do you get unstuck with servicing, like all the tools and actually delivering work?

00:14:40:08 - 00:15:02:22
Eric Satterly
And so you might check it out at some point. But John's innovation, which I think is really cool, is they turned all of the work that they do. They when they did their planning into a concept where they like measured it with TV episodes. So rather than like, say, we're going to do this project and it does XYZ, or we're going to do, you know, a sprint and it's going to be two weeks or whatever.

00:15:03:00 - 00:15:25:21
Eric Satterly
They did TV episodes. And so a project, something they were going to deliver was a TV, a, you know, a TV series. And so maybe, project was a specific episode within that. And these episodes would air, you know, every two weeks or whatever. And so they built the whole schedule that kind of took this concept that we understand behind series and, and, episodes and TV shows into the way they do projects.

00:15:25:21 - 00:15:45:14
Eric Satterly
And so they call, you know, they build their schedule for the year and, you know, a little catchy. I don't know how that hits with you. I loved it. I'm like, that's really cool. That just makes it, I think, approachable to people. We're doing the technical side. We're bringing it into something that just feels good and, kind of enjoyable in this process that we go through.

00:15:45:14 - 00:16:04:16
Eric Satterly
So I said all that up to say, man, that really got me kind of thinking of things to like, how can we improve on frameworks and delivery? And so this is where I'm sharing with you. This is kind of a concept that I'm working through and trying to build out. And I call it the 5/8 for transformation for delivery.

00:16:04:16 - 00:16:27:06
Eric Satterly
Right. And so what is the five eights mean. So I don't know, I, you know, I spent probably way too long like staring at a wall trying to figure out something, some cool way to to to give this a title. And so it's essentially like five columns, five sort of units, I mean, stages that we have and every one of the words that, defines a stage ends in 80.

00:16:27:08 - 00:16:49:09
Eric Satterly
So the 5/8, that's it. It's not as exciting. You probably saw eight and thought we would get breakfast, but that wasn't happening. But so this was like my first version of this. And I'm going to I know you can't read this, but just this idea that there are these five stages that we go through on delivery, collaborate, investigate, create, activate, and operate.

00:16:49:09 - 00:17:12:07
Eric Satterly
And I'm going to talk about each of them briefly here in a second. And then in each one of these stages there's kind of these, these different, you know, groups that we have. So there's roles I'll talk about that. There's endeavors and then artifacts, things that we'll create in that. And so every opportunity or problem, you know, you can move through this as a way to perform transformation.

00:17:12:07 - 00:17:31:04
Eric Satterly
So this was again, this was my first pass at this. And I thought the one thing that this really has a gap in, in my mind is it makes everything like if you look at this linearly, it feels like everything is equal in the amount of time, but in reality it isn't. So again, not for reading more, for just context, but collaborate, investigate, create.

00:17:31:04 - 00:17:49:00
Eric Satterly
It takes longer. So don't think that every one of these things is the same unit of time. They could each have sort of different, different units of time that occur. I mean, collaboration could be five minutes, but, you know, so we'll talk about each of these real quick. But anyway, that's the general overall concept. So the first thing that's critical in this is roles.

00:17:49:03 - 00:18:09:18
Eric Satterly
So that's that first row that was on the the overall chart. And again the size of your organization is going to vary. I think in some organization you may have entire teams that could be one of these roles or in other ones you might be every one of these. Right. It just depends. But I think it's important to kind of give a little bit of voice to each of these different roles.

00:18:09:18 - 00:18:28:09
Eric Satterly
So on the technical side, a change manager. So this is somebody like their job is to shepherd the process. I think if we don't really name accountability for who's moving things through these different stage gates, like it just gets lost, it gets stuck. So somebody really needs to be on the line for doing that. This next one is an experience analyst.

00:18:28:15 - 00:18:44:10
Eric Satterly
So again this is back to my whole point of let's not think about the user experience on the tail end. Let's think about it in the beginning. Let's actually engage with the users to figure out what are the features that we need. Let's not over feature them and do the feature items. Let's figure out what are the things that will make this have an impact.

00:18:44:10 - 00:19:06:21
Eric Satterly
So somebody needs to be thinking about that. So that's the experience analyst A solution analyst not necessarily the engineer, but somebody that maybe understands what are all the capabilities that you currently have. And it's assembling of those in a different way. So somebody that can really think through potential solutions project manager that's not going away. Somebody's got to really understand resources requirements.

00:19:06:21 - 00:19:26:21
Eric Satterly
How do we bring those things to to bear capabilities that we have. And then I've got engineer and technical support. So we need engineers. This can be a wide range of engineering capabilities. And then at the end of the day who's going to provide that technical support for systems. But then on the functional side there's a couple of really key roles like an executive sponsor.

00:19:26:23 - 00:19:44:02
Eric Satterly
I mean if you don't have that, like what are we doing? Who's commissioning this? Who's going to ultimately be responsible for making sure that we secure funding and budget as we go on? Somebody needs to own the service. I think that's a big one. It's time to to make an updated change. Do we need to what should we do?

00:19:44:04 - 00:20:01:13
Eric Satterly
Who decides that service owner needs to decide that who's going to operate the system, the tool, the whatever, and then who's going to consume it? And so back to the point of like, well, the real customer stand up. Like from the technical side, these people are the customers, like all of these roles over there. That's the customer from the side.

00:20:01:15 - 00:20:18:16
Eric Satterly
But they're in there. So I was going to do like a Waldo thing. You'd find them in there. So setting up the roles, that's important. I'm going to just talk through each of the eight, very quickly. So collaborate. So what do we do in collaborate right. Really think through like this is this is just a stage.

00:20:18:16 - 00:20:33:16
Eric Satterly
And the whole purpose here is don't come to me with here's your contract that you need signed. You've already got it figured out. You're coming to me on the technology sign. Oh, you're in the way. You're slowing me down. No. Like come to us with the problem or the opportunity. That's the goal. And we're going to collaborate. Right.

00:20:33:21 - 00:20:52:09
Eric Satterly
And so for each one of these stages, each one of those roles that I just showed are involved in various amounts. And it's going to change as you move through the stages. So the change manager in the stage, they are 100% invested. In fact, the stars next to them to say they're responsible for getting this to the next stage that's on them.

00:20:52:14 - 00:21:16:16
Eric Satterly
And then there's a lot of customer, in this one because all we're doing here is stating the obvious, like Captain Obvious, big fan state the obvious. Like, what are we trying to do? What what's the problem we're trying to solve? Because I think you would be amazed when you actually ask that question. The varied answers you would get getting alignment on what we're even trying to do is that's critical because we don't know what you're solving.

00:21:16:18 - 00:21:36:14
Eric Satterly
You're your chance of success is pretty minimal. So build the problem statement. The whole goal of the stage is to deliver a problem statement. That's it. One page or maybe a paragraph or whatever. Here is the problem we're solving. This is the problem. That's it. Everybody agrees to it. You set the tone here. Like set the tone as we're solving a problem and we're not implementing a thing.

00:21:36:16 - 00:21:56:07
Eric Satterly
I mean, I think it would change the mentality totally and lead to a lot more success. So that's collaborate. You got the problem statement. Now you kick that over to the next stage, which is investigate different complexity, different make up of the roles. Like you bring more people and you bring that experience analyst and you bring that solution architect in.

00:21:56:09 - 00:22:25:07
Eric Satterly
And so now you have different people that are starting to to riff off of what's what are the possibilities? Lay them all out, figure out the possibilities that we have. Look at your options. Identify your stakeholders, talk with experts like do some research, perform riskiest assumption tests when you're going to do this. Like what is the risk, the biggest risk that you have if you make that as an assumption, like do some testing against that to figure out, like does this have a chance?

00:22:25:09 - 00:22:42:21
Eric Satterly
And in the end you're just going to create a proposal, not a project, a proposal. This proposal is then going to kick over to your create stage. And this is where you hand it off to the project manager. So now the PM gets involved. And this is where we start to look at capabilities resource. We have a proposal.

00:22:42:21 - 00:22:58:02
Eric Satterly
We have a thing that we're going to try to do. We've got to turn this into a project. And then this is why this stage is longer. Like deliver it, whatever that is. If that's right, software, if that's simply signing a contract on board a vendor or whatever, like through this creation stage, you are going to create the solution candidate.

00:22:58:04 - 00:23:15:18
Eric Satterly
So that's the work that happens here. You move through there. This can take a lot of time. You may have some iteration that goes through there. So again these things aren't bound by time. This is just a framework conceptually. Now we're in the create stage. You know I would see in a healthy organization you would have work in all of these stages in various points in time.

00:23:15:18 - 00:23:42:04
Eric Satterly
And just watching, you know, helping move that through. So that's create and then activate. So great. Now you've got this thing. It needs to be turned on effectively essentially. Like how do you do that. Different people get involved, right. Start to bring in your technical support more so that they understand like what are their responsibilities in this? What are the sla's that we're going to have with this system, solution, service, whatever that we're turning on?

00:23:42:06 - 00:24:16:14
Eric Satterly
Like let's make sure that the users accept it. So do the UAT. If there's any sla's that we have to deal with, with like technical support or the service owner in the organization that happens here, developing any training materials, and then doing any training part of activation. Big fan of like if we would have some handoff ceremonies so that everybody really knows like we're commemorating that it moved across the stage with a point in time and then updating service catalogs with like then current systems that we have and then finally moving it over to operate.

00:24:16:14 - 00:24:45:12
Eric Satterly
So handoff like this is back to the like we're not the technology is out of it. But like where you can't just keep like doing the last 10% and operating it like we're handing it off. And it is back to the customer. The service owner is responsible for that. They're going to know if there's some issue item, whatever they need to bring back to technology, maybe we have to bring an outcome of this back into the entire cycle and move it through completely possible and totally on the table.

00:24:45:14 - 00:25:02:11
Eric Satterly
But the point is, now we really understand that we've gone through these stages and ceremoniously now handed it back to the end users that are going to operate this. And then we understand, like we're the technical side, we're ramping down, they're ramping up, but we're here for it to come back in and kind of feed through the process.

00:25:02:13 - 00:25:20:02
Eric Satterly
So I know I kind of blew through that pretty quickly, but that's that's really the gist of it. This is me at the end here. If you, want to reach out or have any questions or, you know, want to talk about this, I mean, I feel like this is one of those things that's sort of like going to be an evolving work in progress.

00:25:20:04 - 00:25:38:10
Eric Satterly
Maybe always, but I just, you know, I, one of my other like, in my mind, I see this debate and I'm always having with, like, young Eric and old Eric, and I know the things that I thought when I was, you know, young. And so I am an electrical engineer, too. So, that I think I've turned into that crusty one.

00:25:38:10 - 00:25:56:08
Eric Satterly
Or maybe not. Maybe I was and I'm not or something, but I know the things that I thought then, and I know the things that I thought now or I think now, and I see where like, there's this evolution. And I do realize, like, I mean, we're just here for like this segment of time that we're all kind of journeying on this together.

00:25:56:08 - 00:26:21:11
Eric Satterly
And when you really realize, like, it's not just necessarily checking all the boxes, but I want to, you know, fill that whole framework up with like a great experience, but also making it reliable and stable. And so we bring all that together when the tools and systems and things that we deliver actually get used and are beneficial. And so hopefully this is a way that like you can use or you can say, you know what, that's terrible.

00:26:21:11 - 00:26:43:10
Eric Satterly
But it inspired me to create the thing that I think is better because like I said, I'd you know, I think the TV show things pretty cool, but I think this is pretty cool, too. And I just there's a lot of ways to approach it. But I think giving something that people that aren't technical can understand and grasp and hold on to really helps everybody, especially in like, this new world of tech that we're in.

00:26:43:10 - 00:26:54:16
Eric Satterly
So with that, thank you for hanging out and sticking through it even without like the breakfast stuff. Yep. And thanks for the thanks for. Yes. Yeah.