IT Leaders

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:27:19
Speaker 1
So for those of you who have not met me, my name is Michael Quesada I'm a native Texan, so I was born in El Paso, Texas. Moved to Indianapolis in 2001. And have works, you know, aside from the US, have worked at Mexico, have worked in Europe and have left it teams, across the different technical domains, including application development, you know, infrastructure, operations, in security teams.

00:00:27:21 - 00:00:49:07
Speaker 1
And so, today, I mean, currently I am the director of, strategic initiatives at the public. For those of you who don't know or not familiar with Republic, that's a regional, airline that is, headquartered here in Indianapolis. A lot of people don't know that, today we've I mean, we partner.

00:00:49:07 - 00:01:10:19
Speaker 1
So if you've flown from Indianapolis to anywhere in the East Coast, maybe the Midwest cities, maybe down to Florida, in an American Airlines United Delta, chances are that it's one of our planes. Chances are really good that you got there on time and a very good kind of clean airline. We're very proud. We're a high performing airline, in the Midwest.

00:01:10:19 - 00:01:27:13
Speaker 1
So we're very proud of that. Today, I was here to talk. You know, I've been having a conversation with. With Doug. About what? You know, what maybe would be a relevant topic to talk with, with this, with this particular group. And it part of it, you know, part of this is part of, you know, focused on emerging leaders.

00:01:27:13 - 00:01:45:08
Speaker 1
But I think a lot of it will resonate with folks who have been in leadership positions for quite a bit of time. I think we underestimate a lot of times the, you know, the layer between the visions of the person that's creating the vision. That is not our vision, it's their vision. And then the team that's executing on that vision.

00:01:45:11 - 00:02:09:02
Speaker 1
So it's the team that we're responsible for, and then we're caught in the middle. So there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of complexity there, but I think sometimes we undervalue. So I'm going to talk about my experiences in terms of leading in that in that gray space. But before I go there. So now I've introduced myself, introduced the topic with hopes that people will kind of have listen to what I'm going to say here over the next couple of minutes.

00:02:09:04 - 00:02:29:22
Speaker 1
But then I'm going to share a story that's going to probably be, you know, maybe, maybe hit the credibility. Maybe you guys will stop listening to what I'm going to say, because it contradicts a lot of things that, Alex just talked about. So, so, so a while back, I told I had a disagreement with my direct with my direct manager.

00:02:30:00 - 00:02:51:03
Speaker 1
He was at a VP level, and I told him that he could stick his feedback where the sun doesn't shine, right? I told him that it wasn't a one on one situation. Nope. It was in a group situation that was this big. So it was full of our IT leadership team. It was his peers were there. Yeah, that's crucial for that.

00:02:51:05 - 00:03:16:12
Speaker 1
And the CIO was there. That was a smart move wasn't it? For so, with that in mind, I will share more about how this story concludes later on in the presentation. So what's so complicated? Right. What's so complicated about this middle area here? You know, I think, you know, when you look at some of these things, it's vision, strategy, execution in the in that emerging leadership position, you're likely dealing with some strategy.

00:03:16:12 - 00:03:37:21
Speaker 1
Maybe you're going into some execution. And, and and we all know I mean, there are some proven models out there that talk about strategy and how we how we develop strategy. There's a lot of frameworks looking adopt. There's, there's, there's different, methodologies that we can use for execution. We're all aware of agile. We're aware of moving from product to, you know, from project to product.

00:03:37:23 - 00:03:59:15
Speaker 1
So there's a lot of things that are out there that we know about that we can educate ourselves and get very smart about. But what makes this so complicated, what makes this so complicated? People, it's it's the same thing that makes it very rewarding. It's the people. Right. And so this is not typically a leap year, a linear, you know, relationship.

00:03:59:20 - 00:04:21:19
Speaker 1
Right. This is a circular relationship. And in what you're doing when we're doing this is that you're managing two different relationships. It's already it's already very difficult to manage one relationship here. You're managing two different relationships completely, two different stakeholders. And you're trying to figure out how to make each other for to talk to each other. Right. And so this can get pretty complicated.

00:04:21:19 - 00:04:44:13
Speaker 1
Right? So when you talk about the vision again it's circular right. It's not linear. If we're principally led leaders it's somebody can give you the vision. But you should be able to say I don't understand it. Or maybe I have a challenge on the leadership. Right. Not easy to do, but something that you have to do in order to be a principal leader.

00:04:44:13 - 00:05:06:04
Speaker 1
And the reason why I say that is because you need to be able to understand that vision, make it yourself would be passionate about it, to then translate it down the road. Right now you have that circulation, right? So now you have the vision. Now you start to develop the strategy. We start to put methodology to place. We do all that stuff right.

00:05:06:06 - 00:05:25:03
Speaker 1
You plow right, you you gotta go talk to the team and get their feedback. Right. We got to get their feedback. Hey, how do you guys feel about the vision? Right. So that we're managing a relationship, right. It's not the methodologies. It's not any of those components. It's not the development of the strategy that makes it difficult. Is now talking to the team.

00:05:25:05 - 00:05:43:04
Speaker 1
Now I understand the vision. I'm passionate about the vision now going to the team and getting their buy in. Right. And then it's not always sometimes. Yep. Pretty straightforward. I get the eye and we, you know, then we move on and we could start to develop the strategy and put some of the methodology in place. At some points we get the feedback right.

00:05:43:08 - 00:06:07:17
Speaker 1
We're principled eaters. We best as well as we as we direct. So we we, we start to get the areas where the team doesn't understand the vision we got. I come back to the executive and talk about, hey, there's some questions around this company, clarify this, or maybe you have the answer. Either way, this starts to become a very difficult relationship that you're managing on the two ends of the spectrum.

00:06:07:19 - 00:06:24:14
Speaker 1
So to some extent, I like to say that you come out almost like a, like a pursuit API, right? You have to be able to deal with the complexities, the reality of the of down the light. You really need to understand the complexities, and you need to speak in the complexity of the language that people are speaking in that language.

00:06:24:16 - 00:06:47:16
Speaker 1
And then on this side, you need to be able to polish it up. The interface needs to look a little bit clean and needs to be engaged. Right. So and you're doing all that well, you're there in the middle of getting this is not a very easy thing to do. So as I go forward, I'm going to share with you some things that I've used and signs of things that I've done in order to manage that.

00:06:47:20 - 00:07:14:20
Speaker 1
Then see the relationships on both sides of this file of this spectrum. Yeah. The first one is consistency, right. And this is about the team performing up and bringing you the vision into place. Consistency. So this is my experience where my experience is there has to be a long term engagement up that leader to be able to see that transformation and come to a place.

00:07:14:22 - 00:07:37:19
Speaker 1
Right. So what does that mean for me as a leader? I'm committing myself the four. I ask the team to commit themselves, right? I have gone to a point where I'm saying I understand the vision. I am going to commit myself to this. And what does that mean? That usually means that if it's a large transformation of it's strategic, it doesn't mean that it's six nights, eight months, 12 months.

00:07:37:21 - 00:07:59:03
Speaker 1
It starts at 18 months, maybe 24 months, maybe 36 months. Right. And I'm committing myself to that team before I ask them to commit themselves. Am I committed to that? I want to provide that consistency for that team or to that long period of time. So what? So this is this this is pretty serious, right? So what do I typically do.

00:07:59:03 - 00:08:23:05
Speaker 1
Right? I, I, I have to make sure that my personal values imprint apples are aligned with the organization, are aligned with these people. I'm committing two years of my life, three years of my life for that team. I need to make sure that I'm aligned. Right. So so the example with Rick Pollack, right. So I just so now I've, I've been there a year, a year and a half.

00:08:23:07 - 00:08:51:02
Speaker 1
And so when I was having the conversation with Nirav Shah, who was the CIO there about joining this, joining his organization, we talked about the transformation activities that he have for his organization. So we had a good conversation in both log like long initiatives that are going to take some time to get done. Right now, I'm getting the sense, okay, this this is this is where I'm looking for in my experience, I need there needs to be consistency for that transformation happen.

00:08:51:04 - 00:09:09:09
Speaker 1
That is me. I am going to be the one that providing that consistency. So I have enough conversation with Nair off to make sure that we're understanding each other in terms of, you know, that we are able to work with each other. So all that happens in the in the part of the of the, you know, interview process.

00:09:09:11 - 00:09:30:11
Speaker 1
So I start to feel more comfortable about that. The other thing that I, that I did is I looked a little bit more into the organization to understand more about Republic. Right. And how are they as an organization. And one thing that caught my attention, and I'm going to read it because I don't want to massacre it, because it's so well written and it caught my attention.

00:09:30:11 - 00:10:01:02
Speaker 1
And this this is pretty full, right? So this is their this is Republic's culture statement that says. We believe that every associate, regardless of personal belief or worldview, has been created in the image and likeness of God. We seek to become stronger from our diversity. We seek personal respect and fulfillment. And most of all, we seek to recognize that dignity, a potential of each member of our Republic.

00:10:01:02 - 00:10:25:16
Speaker 1
Airways. Holy scab. Right. Let that sink get right. That's bull. Right? When's the last time that I seen a stigma like that that mentions God in any corporate organization that is not leaving towards religion, right. For me, in terms of where I am personally in my life, and that spirituality is a big component of who I am that spoke to me.

00:10:25:20 - 00:10:46:17
Speaker 1
Right? So from a consistency perspective, where do I sit on that? I'm all in, right? I'm body, I'm body. And so so again, I'm committed to the team before I'm asking the team to commit to me. Right. So that's that's one I the next one is direction. Well again these are the things the team needs to be able to be successful that they need from us.

00:10:46:18 - 00:11:15:15
Speaker 1
Right. As leaders. So from a from direction perspective, this is now translating the the vision into actionable goals and objectives for the team. Right. But there's another loop on the other side. Right. So I'm not I'm not directing I'm not understanding of directing here. I'm working with the team to pay for their buy in, and we're called developing these goals and objectives.

00:11:15:17 - 00:11:38:18
Speaker 1
In terms of the other of the direction that they need, am I there for them? If there's confusion and they need some some kind of guidance? Absolutely. Therefore, come on. We're co-developing those together as a team. And the biggest thing that I found through my experience has been how how body and I am at the organization, for when I provide the that direction.

00:11:38:20 - 00:12:15:09
Speaker 1
And if I'm very bought in, then, it's at the passion level. It's an emotional level. And now the team can see that emotion. Right? The direction is coming through. Not because I am directing of managing. It's because I'm emotionally connected to to the to the vision and it comes across to the team. Right. So from a direction perspective, that's that's what I mean when when I talk about direction, the third and last item that I'll speak about in terms of what the team needs to be successful to execute a large transformation projects, is space right.

00:12:15:11 - 00:12:33:08
Speaker 1
So what is this? This the room the team needs to be able to develop as a team, right, to go through the process that everybody you know that I think Aaron that talked about before. Right. It's kind of the form you know form norms alignment before. Right. So people need time to get together and develop as a team.

00:12:33:10 - 00:12:59:11
Speaker 1
We need time to develop the skill sets that we we need time for the team. We need to allow time for the team to experiment and do some of those components that they must do right. So we allow that space where that team, in my opinion, this is the area where then companies create new capabilities, right? If you create that space, the company will have a new capability, whether whether before you weren't in your internal development shop.

00:12:59:11 - 00:13:27:11
Speaker 1
Now you become an internal development shopper. You learn about agile development, DevOps. You start to to create that new capability within the organization. So this is a really important, really important, component that I believe, again, creates this long term capability within the team that then gives back to the organization. And now in my experience as well, this is one of the biggest areas that you find yourself in coming back and negotiating with this group of here.

00:13:27:15 - 00:13:52:17
Speaker 1
Right. Why? Because there's there's this group wants results, right. They want they want the progress. They want to see the progress. They want to get the business benefits. And when you're allowing space and time for your team, well, that's that's a trickle right. Start coming through. So this is a big area again lining up principally you need to be able to show some level of results.

00:13:52:17 - 00:14:13:07
Speaker 1
So while the team is learning what is it that we can show in terms of being able to have some solid output as they go through this process? And a lot of times it is a trickle, right. But if you have a quick feedback loop, if you have this communication with this team and you're transparent about what the team is promoting, it makes it an easier discussion.

00:14:13:09 - 00:14:48:20
Speaker 1
It's not an easy discussion. It's a very difficult discussion to allow for that space. But I, I personally believe I'm strongly principle about allowing that space for that team to execute on their transformation. So the these are the three main components that, that I monitor as I'm happy that you know, the relationship with the with the organization downstream, I'm not going to come over to this side and then talk about kind of some of the areas that I'm that I monitor again, with my relationships with, with, the upstream or my manager credibility.

00:14:48:21 - 00:15:18:09
Speaker 1
Right. Credibility is it's huge. Right. So I do what I'm saying that I'm going to do. Right. That's one I, I, I, I do the right thing. I, I am right a lot. Right. But it's not as good as I am right a lot to get credibility. There's no there's not, there's no denying that you have to be right a lot of times to build up that credibility because you are the truth, the you are the trusted advisor to that executive, right?

00:15:18:09 - 00:15:40:01
Speaker 1
For your domain. I mean, you're very smart. You're really good at what you do. And there should be no there should be no sugarcoating. That is, you have to be right a lot. Now we'll talk about risk, right? This is not the place in that where you use credibility. When you use risk right. You use this up. So I'm not talking we'll talk about taking risk but credibility is one.

00:15:40:01 - 00:16:02:01
Speaker 1
And protecting that I mean I still you know, I still remember one of one of the on feedback that I got from a CEO like that at one when I was working at it. And he said that I was a low maintenance executive. Kenny. Like back then that. But but, you know, the one that the thing that stuck with me is he said that I was this I was a trusted advisor.

00:16:02:03 - 00:16:20:15
Speaker 1
That's huge. That's huge. For somebody to say that you're a trusted advisor. He believed in what I was saying. Right. And so that's huge. It took and you need to protect that. Right. So that that's one, one thing that I and I watch word mILF is I build the relationships with the with the executives. The other one is action, right.

00:16:20:15 - 00:16:40:05
Speaker 1
They say action is speaks out of the markets. Right. And this is this could not be sure when you're dealing with the executive state. Right. Action speaks louder than words. They want to see action. If you're having a lot of conversation and you're going through a lot of methodology, you're doing a lot of these things and you just keep it tiny.

00:16:40:08 - 00:17:04:09
Speaker 1
You're doing all these things and very no action, no business benefits, then this is a weak relationship, right? It's not huggy and it's not about people. It's by action and performance. Those are the things that that that matter. This the last one that I'll bring up and ultimately you'll be me on this one is actions are louder than words, but words are necessary.

00:17:04:11 - 00:17:30:21
Speaker 1
Right words are necessary. That dialog this is necessary. You need to have that dialog. You need to have that conversation. This is a space that I say, you know, no news is necessarily not good news, right? No news means that you do not know. Where do you stand with this? With your stakeholder up. No, the no news is not necessarily good news.

00:17:30:23 - 00:17:57:08
Speaker 1
So it has to be the steady flow of communication, right? There has to be this steady flow of communication. And and the other thing that I would say an uncomfortable conversation is better than no conversation right here. It's not sidestepping the difficult conversation. It's having the difficult conversation. So the the these are the important things that, that I, that I, look at as a managing this relationship up here.

00:17:57:10 - 00:18:18:08
Speaker 1
Now, you know that the credibility and dialog definitely use those as I deal with the team on this site. Right. It's just as important for me to have credibility up the chain as it is to cop credibility down the chain. This team needs to believe that I know what I'm talking about when I'm when I'm when I'm giving them some guidance here as well.

00:18:18:10 - 00:18:42:19
Speaker 1
And they need to know that I'm listening. Right? That communication is important to me. They need to know about those things. So when I go through this process, these are the areas that that I'm focused on that does does that resonate with with the team? Yes. The next one, poke the bear conflict it conflict. Right. So pop the bear.

00:18:42:19 - 00:19:19:13
Speaker 1
Let's make it right. Poke the bear is basically you're agitate somebody who has more power than you, right. And sometimes you're going to do this. Sometimes you have to do this right. And so this is where I'll go back and I'll talk about, let me do this. Turning that to bear. This is what we're all cooking. And my story about when I told my boss to stick in the back or, so, so the context is, you know, I was a director, and we were going to have a global, a global, networking session that was in the last 2 or 3 days.

00:19:19:15 - 00:19:47:21
Speaker 1
And so what had happened? Who had split up our I.T organization into different domains? Those teams are going to build the strategies, the two year strategy for each one of those domains. Right. And so we're going to get together who has a global team and then work, you know, work our different organizations. And then we're going to stand up front of the, the, the, the I.T leadership to tell them, you know, to to basically discuss our, our proposal for a two year strategy.

00:19:47:21 - 00:20:08:01
Speaker 1
For that we I was responsive for coming up with the, sort of virtualization strategy that we're going to have for two years. Right. And so what I did is I cheated a little bit, so I, I found out who my team was going to be months before it was time to do it. Right, maybe a month or two months.

00:20:08:03 - 00:20:27:07
Speaker 1
And so I give them all homework. I said, guys, go find out. Go get the inventory across our global organization, right? 3000 servers. Find out all the details around, you know, the, the, all the the hardware configuration, what applications are sitting on there? What's the least schedule for each one of those? For each one of those servers?

00:20:27:07 - 00:20:46:21
Speaker 1
I've got a ton of information and let's start accumulating that data. Right. What does that data what does that data tell us? So we had a super hit huge start to what we were doing that you put in a lot of work to get to the point where when we got together for that workshop, we were not trying to develop a strategy.

00:20:46:23 - 00:21:12:00
Speaker 1
We're beyond the strategy. We had all the data. We were now putting together roadmaps and schedules based on data that showed when how we were going to then replace servers over time. You know, according to these schedules, according to all the all this data. Right. It was awesome. Impressive. I was ready to get in front of the organization and just kind of be proud of the of all the work the team had done.

00:21:12:02 - 00:21:29:10
Speaker 1
So we go through the process, we're presenting then. So the thing is we're presenting in front of a big group of that like organization. The front table is the, you know, executive organization. So this is where the VP is, the CIO are sitting. They're the ones that are going to judge, you know, how we're doing on our on their on our strategy.

00:21:29:12 - 00:21:55:12
Speaker 1
So we go through our presentation, we talk about all the assumptions. We and I'm sitting there will say okay so Arc is there any feedback. So a lot of the initial feedback was very positive. Oh my gosh. You guys have done a lot of homework. All this is data driven. This is awesome right? Except for my boss. My boss stood up and he was you know he you know while calling Greg Wines with Greg.

00:21:55:12 - 00:22:20:01
Speaker 1
But it's not Greg. And so he stood up and he said, well, I think you guys can do 10 to 50% more savings in year one. And I said, well, Greg, like what a software, what assumption. Or we've shown a lot of data here. Like where is it? Where are you getting that? Where are you getting that. And and Greg was grass and he was you know, he was an ex-military guy.

00:22:20:01 - 00:22:45:03
Speaker 1
Now, now all the ex-military guys are this great. But he said, well Michael, he goes, I pulled it out of my board. So I sat there and I thought, okay, and how do I respond to this? Right. So I said, well, while back I said, no wonder that number speaks and I think you should put it right back where you got it.

00:22:45:05 - 00:22:56:13
Speaker 1
So why did I do that? Why did I decide to poke the bear in front of all his peers and his colleagues? Finally, I decide to do this.

00:22:56:15 - 00:23:20:21
Speaker 1
The reason? It was a principle, the risk. Right? The team had worked their butts off. We had talked about these and how we covered data driven, our fact driven, and how all this, all this work we need to do and in know in a small statement, somebody was going to sweep that away. Right. Imagine the motivation of that team when they're seeing just arbitrarily, somebody's going to say something different.

00:23:20:23 - 00:23:43:19
Speaker 1
Right. And and I knew Greg well enough to know that he was a big proponent of stretching, hitting your stretch goal. Right. And that was not going to have that. Not not not that. Right. It was it was all about the user, all about the motivation of the team. It was all about all that work. And I wanted the team to know that I had their back.

00:23:43:21 - 00:24:06:14
Speaker 1
Right. So the good news is that, you know, I didn't get fired. People laughed because they laughed again. They doubt that we're hot. Where do you that if I'm on the heels? Adaptive. Right. I'm back. But it was a principal risk, right? So. So for me, it's. I'm saying as leaders, you will find that you have to poke the bear sometimes, right?

00:24:06:16 - 00:24:29:23
Speaker 1
For, for for different reasons. One is this principal risk that I did, I screamed about the other one is vision. Right. So this guy is not the only guy that has vision, right? You know, except we have vision. I hear how vision also. And so this is the time that a lot of times you get this, you know, will you agitate your leader because you want to do something that's a little bit different, right.

00:24:30:01 - 00:24:54:13
Speaker 1
So this is where I feel an innovation versus status quo comes. Right. So we try to do the right thing. We have a conversation with a boss. We're patient. We're seeing a explaining it with facts about and he's not buying it right. So so we have to to that. Right. What does what might this look like. A it's not as dramatic as maybe what I did this last time like but but it could be you know, what I had done before was hey, here's a credit card.

00:24:54:13 - 00:25:14:21
Speaker 1
Go stand up some Amazon instances and let's figure out what is stick on GMB for us. I, I cast this whole people process and they don't need to buy it. Right. Cuz that done that before right? So that's poking the bear trying to figure out I have a different idea. I'm building my own vision. And so but it's a risk, right?

00:25:14:23 - 00:25:37:03
Speaker 1
It's a risk. The other, the other place where you might where you might poke the barriers, where we have this chart, where you have this large enterprise, you know, initiative that's going forward, and all of a sudden you're the one that has to say, I think we need to secure a deposit. You we need to stop it.

00:25:37:03 - 00:26:00:20
Speaker 1
I think we need to pin it here. Right. So my experience here, right. We have this large enterprise flagship, you know, piece of software that, you know, drives 60 to 70% of revenue for the organization and or two years into the into the to the development. And it's your typical large screen. Right? You know, I'm, I'm the new leader that comes in evaluates what we're doing.

00:26:00:20 - 00:26:23:02
Speaker 1
I'm gonna say like stop. I think we need to pause. And I think we need to really consider instituting, agile development in here. That call. Right. What you're going to do is you're going to stop it now, and so what? And. Yeah, and I'm going to need, you know, three, six months to get the team wrapped up into what, and I'm going to need business resources because, you know what?

00:26:23:04 - 00:26:43:15
Speaker 1
We're not getting real time requirements from people who know what the applications are doing. You know, it's it's people trying to figure this out like big deal break. And so, so my my being, my main message to you is that you will have to poke the bear some time. Right. And you need but you but it's but it's a risk.

00:26:43:17 - 00:27:03:01
Speaker 1
And so then what I say is you need to feed the bear first. If only poke the bear, feed it bear. And so all this is about basically building a relationship, right? Do what they need to do right? Of having to fit the connection with your what's your eater actually that they know who you are, that they already feel that you're dynamic and that you have ideas that are your own.

00:27:03:03 - 00:27:22:14
Speaker 1
And so that you have that connection with them. So they start to get a sense of who you are and what you want to do, create this quick action feedback. Account actions speak louder than words with this now, right. So that you're creating things that, that, that, that, that, that they want. And then I always think about compromising with actions.

00:27:22:14 - 00:27:45:14
Speaker 1
Right. So it's not no words or I'm not about into that is what are some. But here's another option right. Maybe this or one here's another option. So you you talk about the different options. So for for me it's important that you see the bear before you pop the bear. Right. And so I'm almost done here with my presentation.

00:27:45:16 - 00:28:10:17
Speaker 1
And so again, you know, feed the bear, you're, know, put the bear is and is, is this a wise decision, time wise decision. So you're going to have two outcomes, right. You're going to either have this very angry bear in the bottom and you will lose some things. And you need to be aware of that. When I poke the bear, I'm willing to lose what what am I going to lose?

00:28:10:18 - 00:28:29:06
Speaker 1
You need to be aware of that because this is a real outcome, right? I gave you the ones where I won. There's other ones where I did it right. So. But that that's a real the real result of and then the last one is eventually bear. Right. Sometimes you if you, you end up with, hey, you know what?

00:28:29:08 - 00:28:45:05
Speaker 1
So how is it that you were able to, you know, get this savings or whatever, you know, if you, that you were doing right, because I give the credit card to the guys, they figured out this Amazon thing and they were virtualize that were getting rid of all this hardware. Here's what you would be. So you went, but you don't always win.

00:28:45:07 - 00:29:13:19
Speaker 1
And so my my message to you couldn't be stronger, right. Proceed with caution. But this I, I really believe that to be a good theater you need to really do so. In conclusion, this gray space that's in the middle complex, right? It's a lot of relationship building it, but it's fine. It's fine, and it's energetic. It's creative.

00:29:13:21 - 00:29:37:11
Speaker 1
That's where innovation comes from. So I encourage you to stay in there, right? Because I think, you know, much like, much like, like many of you, I've had my ups and downs or I'm lost. Sometimes it's like that gray box, right? Trying to figure it out. It's relationships. So you could get lost through there. So it's not you know, it's not that somebody who's been doing this work, you don't 30 years, can still get blasted that box.

00:29:37:11 - 00:29:55:00
Speaker 1
I could still booze. I can still bear the wrong way when that's time. Right. It it's not easy, but it's creative and it's exhilarating. It's a good place to be. And so I'll. I'll leave you with, with, What am I say, recluse? I don't know if anybody's if you've read this book. If not, I would strongly recommend it.

00:29:55:00 - 00:30:14:14
Speaker 1
Short read, easy read. But it has a lot of really cool, you know, principally led, you know, items. It's not. So it's not something you're going to say, okay, then I'm going to do this, then I'm going to do this, makes it make a lot of up. You're in your own principles. But to be a leader is to enjoy the special privileges of complexity, of ambiguity.

00:30:14:19 - 00:30:34:08
Speaker 1
I have diversity, but to be a leader means especially having the opportunity to make a meaningful difference in the lives of those who permit leaders to lead. I think this is us, you know, have this everywhere when I can, because it reminds me that this smart guy is saying it's ambiguous. Oh, okay. Yeah, okay. That that makes me all right.

00:30:34:08 - 00:30:55:19
Speaker 1
But I should know everything, right? It's complex. Okay, guys. Right. So somebody's reaffirming that you're in a space that you don't have to know all the answers to, right. That. And then. And then this last part kills me, right? In terms of it just reminds me, right? I'm a leader because people have allowed me to be, not because I've been put in a position to do that.

00:30:55:21 - 00:35:56:01
Speaker 1
It's something that I've been allowed to. So with that, I leave you and thank you for listening.